Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Squiggle » July 24th, 2017, 6:48 pm

In my experience(which is very limited) I found that you can't restrict the inlet at all on a gas powered smokers(my fish fridge smoker). I have mine in a separate chamber with a separate opening so I can run it with the front open, a bit harder to regulate temp, but a lot safer & more effective. :kewl:


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Squiggle » July 24th, 2017, 6:50 pm

Can you open the lower area separate to the front door? I just can't tell from the pics


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by addison363 » July 24th, 2017, 7:07 pm

I technically do have 2 lower doors. 1 in the rear of the unit, and one on the end but they both have been insulated over and walled off by the inner back and inner right walls. I can't do it without cutting an access hole / inner door into the back or left wall.


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Squiggle » July 24th, 2017, 7:57 pm

Bummer, if you had the option to open one of those you could just crack it a bit & not affect the CC, also you could see if smoke backs out the door & know there's a flow problem


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by mp4 » July 25th, 2017, 4:11 am

It looks to me like your air/fuel mixers are closed on your burners...open these up some and see what happens.
ImageImage



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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Pete Mazz » July 25th, 2017, 5:57 am

I used a similar burner in mine but had similar issues. I couldn't maintain low enough temps w/o it blowing out, either from wind or opening or closing the door too fast. I even ran screws into the center ring of holes but it still produced too much heat. I changed it to a HP pipe style burner and that fixed it for me.

Image

I can get my smoker up to 500F+ no problem with one of these. My CC is ~17000 cu in with just a 1 in air gap in the walls.



A windscreen under the burner also helps.


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Pete Mazz » July 26th, 2017, 5:37 am

Does your pilot light stay lit? With the door closed all the pull from the heated air has to come from the intakes. Maybe try closing down your exhaust. That would slow the airflow. My exhaust is only 6 sq in.


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by addison363 » July 26th, 2017, 7:47 am

Nope. Pilot goes out too.

My current hypothesis is that it is not wind blowing it out but the burner is starved for O2. Either all the oxygen is consumed because the inlet is too small or combustion gasses are building up and preventing O2 from entering.

To test the hypothesis, my idea is to fire up both burners on full and find a door position that it will burn but that I can seal up with duct tape. First I'll tape bottom half of door. If burner goes out I'll conclude I need more inlet air. If it continues to burn, I'll continue to slowly tape up top half. When burner goes out I'll measure the area of the door crack that is still open, add a little and cut in an extra exhaust vent. Any flaws in my thinking?


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Pete Mazz » July 27th, 2017, 5:12 am

I'm guessing the pilot is being blown out from the airflow. You could try removing the gas valve and running it or keep the pilot outside the smoker to keep it lit.


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Rodcrafter » July 27th, 2017, 6:28 am

That is a lot of burner for a insulated CC. I bet you don't need 1/4 of all that. But I'm not a gas pro, the O2 is key for sure. My limited experience is that the area below the burners need to be open. This allows all the air the burners need and block off the cross winds from blowing out the pilot.


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Pete Mazz » July 27th, 2017, 6:44 am

7" x 13.25" rectangle opening in bottom with (2) 6" diameter burners below.
That's why I think the pilot is getting blown out or cooled by too much air.


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by wvuarmyeng » July 27th, 2017, 3:57 pm

Pete Mazz wrote:
7" x 13.25" rectangle opening in bottom with (2) 6" diameter burners below.
That's why I think the pilot is getting blown out or cooled by too much air.
is the opening to the outside air?

just be careful you dont get a build up of gas and make a "smoker bomb"



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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by addison363 » July 27th, 2017, 9:25 pm

Good idea on doing a test with the pilot and thermocouple away from the airflow to see if that is blowing out the pilot.
If burner stays lit I'll believe pilot is being blown out by air flow. If burner blows out It still has to either do with starved inlet air or overloaded exhaust air. I'll try that first this weekend.

I'll also do a test with 1 burner only set at half high. If burner still goes out but stays lit for a longer time that should reinforce that it is either inlet or exhaust That should cut air velocity and pilot should be more protected. If it does stay lit I should start to get a feeling about what temps are possible and if I have too much burner.

I'll also do a test this weekend where I crack the door to the point it stays lit and then and start incrementally taping up to seal door crack first bottom up and second top down. I'm hoping these results will give a clue to whether it is too small of exhaust or too small of inlet, and also how much additional area might be needed.

I'm also going to do a charcoal basket test and see how that burns and what temps we can get to with wide open 2" valve open.

The area around and below burners is open to under the cabinet except for 2 mounting straps. The very top of the burner surface is flush with the floor. Between the openness around and below burners and the safety valve I've installed I'll feel confident after this design issue is diagnosed and corrected.

I appreciate the help and ideas. I'll keep you posted. - Addison


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Pete Mazz » July 28th, 2017, 5:19 am

I would suggest monitoring temps because if the burners go out the pilot could ignite the escaping gas.

All the air needed for combustion is regulated thru the back of the gas inlet that is adjustable to get a blue flame . The opening under the burners is for convection of the heated air and also gives a way for gas to escape should the burners go out as propane is heavier than air.


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by addison363 » July 31st, 2017, 8:16 am

Problem solved and Pete Mazz called it correctly in advance! Pete's hypothesis was that the pilot was getting blown out by the air flow into the chamber given the high volume combustion from both burners on full.
1. I ran the pilot outside of the chamber. Once I got it shielded well enough from the wind. the burners ran fine and I was able to hit 400* with both burners on 3/4.
2. I replaced the pilot into the chamber and tried to recreate the problem. I ran 5 minutes OK with the door open, then closed the door. Within 90 seconds burners were out.
3. I closed exhaust by half (down to 7.5 square inches) and hypothesized that if it was exhaust gasses building up preventing O2 from entering the burners would blow out faster than 90 seconds. My hypothesis was wrong...It ran with the door closed no problem for 20 minutes! I believe closing the exhaust down slowed the air coming in, therefore the pilot stayed lit and burners stayed on. Problem solved! Pete, thanks for the great troubleshooting ideas! Note: at higher temps the door warped open at the top and with the increased unintended exhaust area pilot did blow out again. I see an additional door clasp at the top in my future.
4. With exhausted closed by half, I worked to see how low of a temperature I could run with propane. With only one burner on turned to low I could stabilized right around 185* F. Great news! 1 burner is not too much for the insulated cabinet...still can go low and slow!
5. Next I made a trial with a charcoal basket. I made a snake with a couple of fire bricks for Minion walls and 50 briquettes inside the basket with a couple of fire bricks. I lit another 50 in a chimney and added them in a pile to the end of the snake. I wasn't able to control temp as well as I wanted...Nice ramp but temp eventually ran away and got up to 300* F despite my efforts to close down inlet air with my valve or open exhaust to let the heat out. I'll try again after installing a door seal and taking care of sealing up a place of couple of places where my workmanship was lacking.

It is good enough to start using this coming weekend. I'll tweak and optimize as I go. More steel is coming in today! On to phase 2 -- Santa Maria grill!

Thanks to all for the encouragement and help. -- Addison


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Pete Mazz » July 31st, 2017, 12:35 pm

Glad to hear you're getting it dialed in!


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Big T » July 31st, 2017, 8:06 pm

:yth: :kewl:


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Squiggle » August 1st, 2017, 6:25 am

:yth: :D


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by addison363 » August 7th, 2017, 9:08 am

Took the smoker side out for its first run this weekend. First did seasoning burn with propane and then loaded up the basket with a snake of Kingsford original and some strips of hickory and a chunk of apple. Smoke went pretty well for the first time out. I still have plenty to learn about controlling my temps... but luckily the turkey breast and butts were forgiving. The next day I configured for propane and baked potatoes and did a higher heat run with chicken breasts and legs. Here are some pics:

ON TO PHASE 2 !! -- Santa Maria grill side steel is in...Will start tonight (unless wife has other plans for me)! -- Addison
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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by behind bars bbq » August 7th, 2017, 2:29 pm

:LG:
addison363 wrote:Took the smoker side out for its first run this weekend. First did seasoning burn with propane and then loaded up the basket with a snake of Kingsford original and some strips of hickory and a chunk of apple. Smoke went pretty well for the first time out. I still have plenty to learn about controlling my temps... but luckily the turkey breast and butts were forgiving. The next day I configured for propane and baked potatoes and did a higher heat run with chicken breasts and legs. Here are some pics:

ON TO PHASE 2 !! -- Santa Maria grill side steel is in...Will start tonight (unless wife has other plans for me)! -- Addison


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Big T » August 7th, 2017, 5:56 pm

:needfood: :needfood: :needfood: :needfood: :needfood:
:LG:


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Rodcrafter » August 7th, 2017, 7:21 pm

Thanks for the pictures


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by ajfoxy » August 7th, 2017, 7:26 pm

Looking good.


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by Pete Mazz » August 8th, 2017, 5:51 am

:beer: :beer: :beer:


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Re: Vertical Stainless Santa Maria Combo Build

Post by addison363 » August 8th, 2017, 7:55 am

Last night I finished up cutting out the drain top.
Fabricating in the inner wood grill body sides is next. Wish I welded! -- Addison
80 starting on grill side.jpg
81 grinding out top plate.jpg
82 drain plate out.jpg
83 collector plate out.jpg
84 grill cutout complete.jpg
84 grill cutout complete2.jpg
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